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Good light and WB without flash

flashmxfreak

New Member
At first:Sorry for my mistakes in my poor English


What about shooting in studio with HB 501 CM?
I have not flash for HB but often is more light necessary.
How can I work in studio or let say interior without flash e.g. with help of table-l&?

In digital photography you can play after shooting with WB (white balance) but what with "bad" WB on analogue photography.
For digital I have Flash Nikon SB 800 but I don't believe that exist possibility to shoot flash with my HB 501 CM


I have read that for correct WB do you need for analogue special lens filters, is not it?
How do you make it without flash?

Thank you for all post, I very appreciate it.

Jan
 

wbulte

Active Member
Hi Jan,

You typically use "tungsten" film when shooting in the studio with incandensent light (so no flash). This film is designed for the warmer (more red) color of these lights. Alternatively you use standard film (daylight film) but add a blue filter in front of the lens to make the light color match what the film is designed for. I think (off the top of my head) you need a KB12 blue filter.

Note that the special foto lights are slightly blue-er (3400 Kelvin) than plain household lights (around 3200 K).

But as far as flash goes: basically any flash unit that allows a cable sync connection can be used on the 501CM. I have some surplus electronic flash units if you are interested, just send me a private message.

Wilko
 

fotografz

Active Member
Jan, there are many choices: Lighting's effect on film is measured by means of "Color Temperature" and can range widely from 2000K to 8000K

If you are using "Hot" Tungsten lights ( continuous light that is very warm colored temperature toward the red/yellow spectrum, rather than electronic strobes or flash which is cooler in color temperature toward the blue spectrum ) ...

you can use Tungsten balanced film ... or a warm filter on the lens ... or you can buy daylight balanced light bulbs (an inexpensive option) ... or you can place a daylight balanced gel in front of the tungsten lights. The easiest is to just use Tungsten balanced film.

The difficult thing when shooting with hot lights like a home table l& is that the "color temperature" can vary widely from very, very warm reddish color to a more pleasing warm yellowish feel. When using Tungsten balanced film, those differences will not show as much after the lab processes the film since they will further balance the prints.
 

qnu

Banned
Jan,

A hint, perhaps to prevent confusion:
"Warm" (reddish) colours are the ones with a low (!) colour temperature, "cool" (blueish) colours those with a high colour temperature.

As mentioned, the colour temperature of regular incandescent lights varies wildly.
It is often said that that applies to regulare 'house hold bulbs' only, and that the colour temperature of halogen lights is a rather fixed entity. It's not: the colour temperature of different halogen lights varies a great deal too.

But you can use halogen lights never the less. But then try to use one type and make of light only, preferably of same age too.
The ones you can find at hardware stores, meant to illuminate home building work, are cheap, and provide lots more light then desk top l&s.

You will have to create your own "light shapers" though. Bouncing the light off large reflectors, or shining it through translucent material is absolutely necessary, to avoid the harsh look direct lighting creates.
White perspex sheets (also available at hardware stores) are great things to use. Put those between the light and the subject.
That way, you can control the degree of diffusion by altering the distance between light and sheet, and/or between sheet and subject. You can put more than one light behind the sheet, Change the angle between light and sheet. And perform many more such tricks that all produce different lighting effects.
Much more versatile than the expensive softboxes that are used with studio flash units, so good when using an expensive studio flash set up too.

A perspex sheet (white, or black) can also be used as an underground/table top in product photography. These sheets bend easily, and it's easy to get a 'horizon-less' background.

But be aware that these lights get very warm.
So take care that you do not create fire hazards.
 

tived

New Member
Hi Q.G.

your wrote :A hint, perhaps to prevent confusion:
"Warm" (reddish) colours are the ones with a low (!) colour temperature, "cool" (blueish) colours those with a high colour temperature./end:

when I do WB in my raw converter, I have to use 3000K to get a cool looking image, but over 7000K to get a very hot yellow, red looking image.

given that my interpretation of my raw converter is correct, blue/cool are high color temperatures, and are in the low end of the kalvin scale around 3000k (another of those opporsite in photography) and hot/red are in the lower color temp eg. 7000k

I use CaptureOne, AdobeCameraRaw for converters. I am quite comfortable with the converters, but it is when we talk about it, that I some times get confused - to your explanation is opporsite of how I understand it, but then again, I often get this opporsite thing in photography wrong.

just wanted to make it clear to myself, thanks

Henrik
 

gjames52

New Member
Henrik:

Tungsten film is rated at 3400K and Daylight 5500K so I think Q's description is correct.

Regards:

Gilbert
 

qnu

Banned
Henrik,

Colour temperature is derived from the colour light a 'black body' would emit when heated up.
The temperature of the thing is used as a measure for the colour it emits, and is measured in degrees Kelvin.
As you know, when heating up things they start glowing red. The red "warm" temperatures thus are at the lower end of the temperature scale, and as the thing heats up, its temperature - and thus the colour temperature too - rising, it will go through yellow and white towards blue.

Now if you tell your camera/software (or it decides itself) that the colour temperature is high, it will start correcting towards the low end.
Overcorrection - either by the camera itself, or you telling the software the colour temperature was higher than it actually was - will lead to "warm", yellowish images.

And vice versa: if the camera/software thinks colour temperature is low, it will correct towards blue, and again overcorrection...
 

flashmxfreak

New Member
Q.G. Thank you for explanation.
I very appreciate it. Specially the paragraph about color temperature from red to blue. I have read some books but the did not so good job like you. It was explained not so easy like by you.

Several months ago I bought a halogen 500w because I can not afford me now to buy "normal" studio lights.
I have not time to mount on the halogen a regulator for intensity. I will make a soft box also - I will do soon
. You are right - the halogen produce to much heat, I must be careful.

I will to try make some shot with halogen light and my digital Nikon D80.
I will see how color will produce with Auto WB. But it will be surely different than with film.

I am looking forward on my first pictures with HB, I will test my body by my friend - he will lend me for a half of day 80mm/f2,8 lens.
Than I will decide what for lens I will buy.

My favorite is still 100/3,5 with an extension tube.


Cheers Jan
 

tived

New Member
Thanks Q.G.

I knew I had gotten it wrong :) thanks for explaining that in plain english. Now I just have to remember it.

regards,

Henrik
 

qnu

Banned
Jan,

When using a dimmer/regulator, you'll be changing colour temperature as well as light output, with colour shifting towards red when the voltage drops.
A better way to reduce light levels would be to just use lower Wattage lights, at the voltage they were designed for.
But be careful when mixing different l&s, because they may differ in colour as well as Wattage (same goes for lights of different manufacturers, or 'type').

Have fun on your first Hasselblad shoot!
 

flashmxfreak

New Member
Q.G. de Bakker (Qnu) wrote on October 16:

' 2007 - 10:21 pm,But be careful when mixing different l&s, because they may differ in colour as well as Wattage '
Thanks you are right of course, I know it from my book and practice for a longer time already.
_________________
About this dimmer, well I will see.
In a few days I will have the dimmer on my halogen, tomorrow I will start to make an simple soft box and than I will see ;)
Maybe I try to make certain setting on my dimmer e.g. one fourth (one test shot) , half (one test shot),
three fourth (one test shot) and full (one test shot). After producing of my film I will see how the color looks like. I think it could help me to better understand which color temperature does my halogen light.

Please which type of film (mark, ISO) would you recommend for my first test shots with halogen - studio light?

But first I need to have a back and lens for my HB
 

qnu

Banned
What film?
Any B&W film...


Best would be a tungsten balanced film.
There are not many of those around: Kodak Portra 100 T, of Fujicolor 160 NPL for negatives, and Kodak Ektachrome 64T for slides.

You could of course use any dayliht balanced film, with filters. But the right filtering will have to be found, and filtering will never be perfect (the blue light that is not present in the light these l&s give off can never be put back in by a filter).

How was the "Hasseblad experience", with the borrowed lens?
 

flashmxfreak

New Member
Sorry I forgot to write "What color negative film?"
I have read some informations here.
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I would like to know what negative color film is recommend for exterior - portrait and interior - portrait (some with ISO 400).

I will test my body on 26th October

My HB friend lives about 300km from me
i must wait...

Thank you
 

qnu

Banned
Jan,

Myself, i like Portra best, Portra 160 NC (exposed as 100 ISO) most of all. I find it a real 'general purpose' film, not just for portraits.

I don't like the 400 NC as much as the 160 NC. I have tried Fuji's 400 ISO film too, but between the two, i like Portra better.
But still not as much as the 160 NC.

There are other 'flavours' of Portra (UC and VC), which are too contrasty and saturated for my taste.

But film choice is much a matter of personal taste and preference. What i like, you might find awfull. And vice versa.
 
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