So it could not be done until this week

qnu

Banned
Nothing.
Go on as if nothing happened.

That worked for them in the past, and i think/fear it will work now too.
 

wbulte

Active Member
Hi Q..

You know.. I'm afraid you might be right.. Except that I am not too sure this will keep working for them. Companies that stubbornly think that their customers are ignorant typically go the way of the dinosaur..

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders about the CFV going down in price lately..

Wilko
 

uaiomex

New Member
Wilko:
What conspiracy are you thinking about?

I do too hope for this release to put some pressure on other dback makers.
If the ZD doesn't do it, I don't know what will? Canon?

Best

Eduardo
 

wbulte

Active Member
Eduardo, I was thinking along the lines of "Imablad got wind of more realistically priced 22MP MF arriving. So better make sure not too many CFV 16MP remain in the inventory." Maybe a CFV22 due soonish?

Ain't conspiracy theories nice to dream of? ;-)

Wilko
 

wbulte

Active Member
Oh... I always thought marketing == conspiracy.

But heh, working with our marketing folks brought me to lots of interesting places so ...

:)

Wilko
 

fotografz

Active Member
Depends on what the specs are and more importantly what the pics look like.

The ZD back features a smaller sensor size than the other "near" 645 22 meg sensors. It also has a small buffer that fills very quickly and moves at glacial speeds when clearing. It appears to only work on the AFDII, so we couldn't use it on a 500 series camera.

Hope it impacts the market, and lets others play. Time will tell.
 

qnu

Banned
I still think that while the MF-guys and gals are playing games amongst themselves, they will one day soon find the real race was run, and won, by someone not from their ranks.
What Mamiya, or Sinar, or Leaf, or Imacon, or... are doing shouldn't be the thing that would worry us. While how one of them might react (if at all) to what another of them does may be fun to watch, it's not the decisive game.
 

fotografz

Active Member
What race Q.G.?

The race for a miniscule market... with huge risk financial risk factors ... and relatively little return for the effort?

You, I, and many of us here are the last of a breed that clings to the good old days with eyes that appreciate the difference ... and a few young pups that see the charm in all of it.

The race has been run, and won already ... by Canon and all those trying to be like Canon.
If there was anything worth pursuing in this "special little part of photography", they would have done it and we'd be slapping 50 meg CMOS MF backs that shoot @ up to ISO 3200 with a big white Canon logo on it.

If these back makers didn't "play games amonst themselves", there wouldn't be one single MF camera maker as we know them left standing today. Maybe a few new enities from former Eastern Block countries would emerge to feed the dying breed as the rest of the world steadly moves to fully automated DSLRs and computer enhanced images ... the like of which we haven't even begun to see yet.

I just shot a wedding with the new Canon 1DMKIII. I made images of a candle lit scene that I could barely see ... the ISO 3200 & 6400 shots made excellent 8X10s and the damned camera focused by the light of one little candle.
 

qnu

Banned
"The race has been run, and won already ... by Canon and all those trying to be like Canon."

That race indeed.

If these MF digital machine makers keep playing "games amongst themselves", and not face the true competition, they are collectively hurtling towards the day that there will indeed be no "single MF camera maker as we know them left standing".

The idea that the miniscule market for MF digital backs and machines is a stable one is where the error lies.
It isn't. It is shrinking.
It is losing to that other market.
 

uaiomex

New Member
I can't see why it would be impossible for Canon to come out with a 25 mp 48X36 system, with the 5D performance and sell it for $ 8K usd

They could really corner the photo market for years. (we don't want that)

The technoogy and tools exist. It's just matter of will. (marketing)

In my humble opinion, such market do exists. Nonetheless, I'd rather go for a suitable dback for my 500CM.

In a few more months, a 22 mp bigger than now sensor CFV back could be as mytical (and as wanted) as the EOS 3D. Industrial conspiracy?

Eduardo
 

gjames52

New Member
Gentlemen:

At the recent WPPI show in Las Vegas, Hasselblad was MIA and the only ones I saw were H series with other makers backs on them. The buzz at the show by all of the major sellers that I spoke to, was the Cannon 5D, they could not sell them fast enough. Now, that Mamiya finally completed there long awaited project, I am sure they are hoping that there long time users haven't jumped ship. As for Hasselblad jumping to a 22 meg CFV back , I hope you are right Wilko, but I would not hold my breath. They are on course H.

Regards:

Gilbert
 

simonpg

New Member
I doubt Imablad will need to think twice about it.

Like Marc said: "Depends on what the specs are and more importantly what the pics look like. "

When Mamiya released the first version of this 645 digi-cam; it filled many MF shooters with anticipation..... that was until they then saw the images. Unfortunately the image quality was a disappointment. One very credible reviewer said something like: "Nice body and great to use; but what a shame about the "face" (image quality)!!"

So for Mamiya's sake and the sake of some keen competition in the MF digi-segments, I hope the 22MP version is a VAST improvement on the first version.

Oh, and it is worth saying that my favourite used gear dealer had a 3 lens kit of the first version for sale just a couple of months used at 50% of the price the first owner paid! He did not like the image quality! Wow!
 

fotografz

Active Member
Of interest to V system owners is that there is an adapter that allows use of all V series Zeiss lenses (C, CF, CFi, CFE, F, FE) on a Mamiya 645 AFD focal plane camera ...

You lose auto aperture stop down, but gain focus confirmation in the viewfinder (which, BTW is very accurate ), and the natural use of a 645 to shoot in portrait or landscape orientation without removing the back like you do with a Hasselblad square format camera. Plus shutter speeds to 1/4000th ( max sync speed is 1/125th).

Because it is a focal plane camera, no sync cord is needed from the lens to the back.

Mamiya offers the 645AFD-II, 80/2.8 lens and 22 meg rectangle ZD back for under $10,000.
and it comes with Adobe Lightroom (a $300. value). Apparently the ZD back isn't the swiftest loading back out there and it probably isn't a good choice for those who need fast shooting capabilities.

But it does have a dual card slot to shoot to CF and SD cards ... which no other MF back offers (Canon EOS pro digital cameras offer this security feature against card failure when shooting once in a lifetime scenes).

My rhetorical question is what the ZD images would look like using Zeiss glass? Wish I could get my hands on one to test that concept (some of the Mamiya glass is pretty darn good BTW, but lacks that Zeiss look we all love).
 

frank_doorhof

New Member
I made the switch to the ZD back also purely based on pricing.
Lenses are rather cheap compared to the hassy system which was first on my wishlist by the way.
The back will be a upgrade process, I will start out with the ZD back and upgrade to leaf or phase one in about 1-2 years.

The quality is amazing for it's pricing. I have shot with the H2D22 and the dynamic range is about the same, in no way it's a system that's not worth the name medium format.

Especially dynamic range/sharpness and smoothness is amazing, so I hope this will mean the pricing will go down on the MF market.

A small ex&le from yesterday, the rings seen in the sky are pure an internet problem, the 16 bits tiff is as smooth as can be.



and two studio shots:


 

frank_doorhof

New Member
Mamiya 645AFD/II with the ZD back lenses varies but I thought for the first one the 35mm AF and for the studio shots the 120mm macro for the closeup and the 80mm f2.8 kit lens for the pinup style.

I know it's the Hassy forum :D but because there were some remarks about the bad quality of the ZD I thought let's post some.

For me it was also a gamble although I got a great review deal from Mamiya NL so I could check it without problems and it stayed.
My initial idea/wish was the hassy system but with the H3D I'm afraid they go the wrong way with a closed system, I love to have the option to switch backs when needed for a job without the problems of having to stay within the system.

Finally the quality of the lenses (and pricing) pulled me to the Mamiya system, and for these prices :D

Greetings,
Frank
 

fotografz

Active Member
The closed system has it's advantages and disavantages.

A few clarifications:

Hasselblad does offer the choice of an open system ... there's the H2 for which you can fit a CF/22 or CF/39 digital back (or even a Multi-Shot CF) ... and those backs can be used on any number of MF camera platforms via the i-plate adapter system.

If one wishes to use a different back on the H2 (or H1) camera all the digital back makers offer that option (except the ZD which only works on a Mamiya ). If one wishes to use the Hasselbald CF back on a different camera system, the iAdapter easily allows that.

I selected The closed H3D system because after comparisons I didn't want or need a different back for use on the H system. I only needed the ability to use the back on a view camera, which it does allow and I do.

Hasselblad has proven they are keeping abreast of developments, or leading them, in terms of image quality, so upgrading with-in the system as things advance is a much more economical way than switching digital back brands every 3 to 4 years ( been there, done that, at great financial loss).

In the end, the totally integrated H3D system with it's databus/software based corrections was more important to me and my work flow.

That said, the ZD and Mamiya kit is a real breakthrough toward more affordable MF digital capture. It's great that MF digital has been opened up to more players who wouldn't otherwise be in the game at all due to the over-all price of entry. That first step is the hardest one, and the ZD has made it relatively easier.
 
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