Use of CFE lens with the 203 FE in C mode

blowupster

Member
What the cell shows in this case ? Does it help or not ?
Does it show only the operture ? Or does it show the IL ?
Does the 203FE know the speed selected on the lens ?
(In this case a 500CEW shoult be easy to build !)
 

blowupster

Member
Never got any answer...in one year !

One month ago I put a CFE lens on a H3D. The body recognise the lens and know the opperture of the diaphragme when I turn the ring. The H3D body don't know the speed selected but suggest a value. The exposure is correct if you select on the lens the suggested speed shown by the body.

The promo price for the H3D was reasonable but I'm more interested in the V Hasselblad.

Perhaps I need to buy the 203FE to have the answer ?
..or to ask to an other forum ?
 

wbulte

Active Member
Que?

Never got any answer...in one year !
Well.. I just re-read the original question but I really do not understand what you are asking. If it is not just me being dim you might want to rephrase your question, maybe that helps obtaining an answer?

Wilko
 

blowupster

Member
Ok !

I have a 202 FA and suppose that the 203FE show the same in the viewfinder if the lens is in "F" mode. A 202FA is not supposed to be used in "C" mode, and in this case, the FA show numbers as if it was still in "F" mode. Thats will not help as the central shutter will open when the focal shutter is still closed.

My question was about the displayed value in a 203FE if you use a "CFE" lens in "C" mode.
Perhaps, like in a H3D witrh a CFE lens it will display the value of a preconised speed, but it cann also show an EV value to help.
Perhaps the 203FE cann read the central shutter value of the lens and help ?
Or perhaps it show only nothing.
 

wbulte

Active Member
Ok !

I have a 202 FA and suppose that the 203FE show the same in the viewfinder if the lens is in "F" mode. A 202FA is not supposed to be used in "C" mode, and in this case, the FA show numbers as if it was still in "F" mode. Thats will not help as the central shutter will open when the focal shutter is still closed.

My question was about the displayed value in a 203FE if you use a "CFE" lens in "C" mode.
Perhaps, like in a H3D witrh a CFE lens it will display the value of a preconised speed, but it cann also show an EV value to help.
Perhaps the 203FE cann read the central shutter value of the lens and help ?
Or perhaps it show only nothing.
Ah. I see. Unfortunately I have no experience with the 200-series but I guess your question can now be answered by someone who owns the necessary equipment.

Wilko
 

terrydent

Member
My 203FE with 40mm CFE, in the C mode displays the letter -C- in the viewfinder. Indeed any lens displays -C- in the C mode on these cameras. There is no display in the viewfinder as there is no metering going on, I believe.
 
Ok !

I have a 202 FA and suppose that the 203FE show the same in the viewfinder if the lens is in "F" mode. A 202FA is not supposed to be used in "C" mode, and in this case, the FA show numbers as if it was still in "F" mode. Thats will not help as the central shutter will open when the focal shutter is still closed.

My question was about the displayed value in a 203FE if you use a "CFE" lens in "C" mode.
Perhaps, like in a H3D witrh a CFE lens it will display the value of a preconised speed, but it cann also show an EV value to help.
Perhaps the 203FE cann read the central shutter value of the lens and help ?
Or perhaps it show only nothing.
First the 202FA does not have a shutter speed ring and therefore there is no "C" settting to dis-engage the focal plane shutter. The 202FA came into being for photographers that wanted a lower cost 200 series camera specifically for F/FE lenses.

You could use a CFx type lens and set 202 in Manual mode and select either Bulb or 1 second, of course you must set the exposure (aperture & Shutter speed) on the CF lens. Of course this is only if you wish to use the central shutter in lens and you shutter speed on the lens is faster then 1 second.

203FE, if you set the shutter speed ring to "C" this dis-engages the focal plane shutter and the 203FE behaves like a 500 series camera.

Below is an excerpt from a Document that I had written many years ago discussing use of various C type lenses for the 203FE. I hope this may help a little. It has been many years since i have used the 200 series, my personal favorite was the 203FE with 110 f2.0.

CFE series- Lenses are leaf shutter lenses with 4 databus contacts on the lens mount. These lenses can be used on our traditional 500 series cameras and have complete compatibility with the 200 series in leaf and focal plane shutter mode with meter coupling.

Using the focal plane shutter in 203FE camera with CFE lenses.
1. Attach the lens to 203FE
2. On the shutter speed ring, press the orange button on the lens and move the shutter ring to F position.
The F function disengages the leaf shutter in the lens, thereby allowing the photographer to use the
focal plane shutter in the camera and selecting shutter speeds as fast as 1/2000 second.
3. Set the desired aperture. (Aperture information will be seen in viewfinder display)
4. Depress shutter release to take photograph.

Using the leaf shutter in the CFE lenses on the 203FE.
1. Attach lens to 203FE
2. Move the shutter speed ring on the 203FE body to B position. Press lens release button and turn shutter
speed ring to C position. Doing so will disengage the focal plane shutter in the 203FE allowing the
photographer to utilize the leaf shutter in the CF/CFi lens. The focal plane shutter will act as an
auxiliary shutter that prevents the film from inadvertent exposure.
3. Set the desired aperture and shutter speed.
4. Depress shutter release to take photograph.
NOTE: the leaf shutter remains closed after the exposure, leaving the viewfinder dark until the
camera is rewound.


CF, CFI series – These lenses are leaf shutter lenses without databus contacts. They can be used on the 203FE although will not transfer the aperture to the LCD display in the viewfinder. The camera display will show the selected shutter speed, no aperture will be indicated in display (-- will be seen on left side on display). The easiest way to utilize the CF, CFi lenses would be to set the mode dial on the control panel to A – Aperture priority. You have the option to press the exposure lock, and recompose your photograph. Once the photograph has been taken the exposure lock is cleared. In Aperture priority the exposure lock must be pressed before each exposure.

You also have the option of using the D Differential mode with the exposure lock, the difference is once the lock button has been pressed that value has been locked into camera the locked until you locked another exposure in it’s
place.

Using the focal plane shutter in 203FE camera with CF, CFi lenses.
1. Attach the lens to 203FE
2. On the shutter speed ring, press the orange button-CFi/ green button-CF and move the shutter speed
ring to “F” position. The “F” function disengages the leaf shutter in the lens, thereby allowing the photographer to use the focal plane shutter in the camera and selecting shutter speeds as fast as 1/2000 second.
3. Set the desired aperture. (Aperture will not be seen in viewfinder display)
4. Engage the depth of field preview. (Located next to the PC lock and below the orange F). It is recommended to focus at maximum aperture (Ex. f4.0) and then stop down the aperture for the desired depth of field. The camera will select the appropriate shutter speed.
5. Set to M, A (recommended), D, Ab mode.
6. Depress shutter release to take photograph.

Using the leaf shutter CF, CFi lenses on the 203FE.
1. Attach lens to 203FE
2. Move the shutter speed ring on the 203FE body to B position. Press lens release button and turn shutter speed ring to C position. Doing so will disengage the focal plane Shutter in the 203FE allowing the photographer to utilize the leaf shutter in the CF/CFi lens. The focal plane shutter will act as an auxiliary shutter that prevents the film from inadvertent exposure.
3. Set the desired aperture and shutter speed.
4. Depress shutter release to take photograph.
NOTE: the leaf shutter remains closed after the exposure, leaving the viewfinder dark until the camera is rewound.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 

evanjoe610

New Member
Paul,

Welcome aboard! Can you describe the differences in regards for a different body used? I currently have a 205TCC with just (1) TCC12 and E-12 back. As a backup to the 205TCC, I have the 201F and a 2000FCM. All three of these cameras has been maintain by Dennis Greco and John Connelly(?).
Both great guys at the Parsippany office.

Evan Dong
 

polypal

New Member
"You could use a CFx type lens and set 202 in Manual mode and select either Bulb or 1 second, of course you must set the exposure (aperture & Shutter speed) on the CF lens. Of course this is only if you wish to use the central shutter in lens and you shutter speed on the lens is faster then 1 second."

I think this is not possible as the 202FA does not allow the use of any leaf shutter lens no matter what function you select with the 202FA, B or 1 second.

The focal plane shutter is not synchronised with the leaf shutter.
Hasselblad states the use of C and CB lenses is not possible with the 202 FA.
 

blowupster

Member
As the lens shutter fire before the focal shutter when you use C lens on a 202FA, it will not work as expected. At low speed it works but at 1/8 only a part of the film is exposed. At 1/30 and faster no light on the film !

The only way to expose film with faster speed in conjuction with an old "C" lens is the use of ...self timmer of the lens and "B" speed on the body. Hum. 11 seconds in the dakk to take a picture is long ! And of course there is no lens self timer on CF (CFE) lenses.

The 202FA body is a wunderfull body that you cann use in manual mode or "D" mode. However, I'm interested in a (much more expensive) 203FE to use higher flash speed (<1/90) for my 180mm and to use my 4x4 viewfinder.
The 4x4 viewfinder does not allow to watch at the display, so you are not sure about the manual speed selected on the 202FA body.
 
Paul,

Welcome aboard! Can you describe the differences in regards for a different body used? I currently have a 205TCC with just (1) TCC12 and E-12 back. As a backup to the 205TCC, I have the 201F and a 2000FCM. All three of these cameras has been maintain by Dennis Greco and John Connelly(?).
Both great guys at the Parsippany office.

Evan Dong
Hi Evan,

Dennis is far and away the best 2000/200 technician there is in the USA.

2000 Series
F or FE lens with focal plane shutter. C, CF, CFi and CFE lenses can use leaf shutter if focal plane shutter in camera is disengaged. The focal plane shutter in the body can be used with CF lenses when the
“F” function is engaged.

2000FC (1977 - 1981)
- Had titanium shutter.
- 1st Hasselblad with larger non-vignetting mirror.
- Featured electronically controlled shutter speeds.
- Must have a battery for operation.

2000FC/M (1981 - 1984)
- The focal plane shutter would retract when the film magazine was
removed.

2000FCW (1984 - 1988)
- User can replace the winding knob with a winder F.
- Improved internal body coating to reduce internal light reflection (palpas).

2003FCW (1988 -1990)
- Improved internal body coating to reduce internal light reflection (palpas).
- Updated with Acute-Matte screen.
- Cosmetic improvements.
200 Series
Utilizes FE lenses for metering and aperture information transfer to the body. F (shutterless) lenses can be used in stop down mode for metering. C, CF, CFi and CFE lenses can be used) can be used in stop down mode for metering.

200 series all feature the following:
1. Double exposure capability by depressing button in the center of the winding crank as the user
advances the camera.
2. TTL/OTF flash capable.
3. Instant return mirror.
4. Rubberized cloth shutter for durability.
5. Uses large aperture FE lenses (and CF, CFi and CFE w/ F setting engaged)
6. Will accept the winder F.

201 F (1994 - 1998)
- 1 second - 1/1000.
- ISO 16 - 1000.
- Manual camera with no internal meter.

202 FA (1998 - present)
- 34 minutes - 1/1000.
- ISO 12 - 6400.
- Center area metering. Covering a 28mm area or 20% of the viewfinder ground glass.
- Exposure lock.
- New control panel.
A, D, M, ML (shutter speed lock)
Pr Set
a. Pr 1 - Self timer.
b. Pr 2 - ISO.
c. Pr 3 - Fill flash.
d. Battery indicator in viewfinder display.
- User can adjust exposure in 1/2 stop increments. Auto exposures are in 1/12 stop increments.

203 FE (1994 - present)
- 2 additional pr functions added over 202 (5 Total).
a. Pr 4 - Exposure shift in AB mode 1/3 increments.
b. Pr 5 - Reference meter function.
- Shutter speed 34 minutes - 1/2000.
- Auto bracketing in 1/3 stop increments for a total of 21 exposures.
- Center area metering, covers a 28mm area or 20% of the viewfinder ground glass.

205 TCC (1991 - 1995)
- 34 min. - 1/2000.
- Spot meter, covers 1 % of viewfinder area on ground glass.
- Auto bracket in 1/4 stop increments for a total of 21 exposures.

205 FCC 1995 - 2002
- E12 CC (cc=contrast control) magazine for zone system.

New functions
1. Programmable placement zone.
2. Long exposure mode.
3. Adjustment of TTL-flash output for fill in flash.
4. Automatic bracketing.

2,3 and 4 are same functions as 203FE.

Altered functions
1. 2 New items in Pr mode: flash adjustment and bracketing step.
2. Shutter speed I automatic mode up to 90 sec.
3. Low battery warning more visible.
4. Indication of locked value in AB mode.
5. Locking of the light value with the exposure button.
6. No separate flash mode.
7. Flash warnings changed.
8. B- Exposure now indicate elapsed time.
9. C- exposure is now guided with indication of shutter speed.
10. The speed of the auto-repeat is increased.
11. During continuous exposure, the camera will not take new readings.
12. Indication of aperture value.

Discontinued Functions
1. Programmable shutter speed warning.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 

jotloob

MFF-Patron
Hello Paul (HUSA)

Thank you very much for your extremely detailed instructions.
Great .
If you could supply this as PDF , I would be able to print it .

I am also using a 203FE (modified for CFV) and have all types of lenses from C-type to FE-type .
Therefore , your instructions are of a big help .
Thank you .

Jurgen
 

blowupster

Member
Thanks for explanations !

So "9. C- exposure is now guided with indication of shutter speed" means that 203FE may help when using CFE lens in C mode as the H3D does (?)
But this does not affect all 203FE ?

Very usefull for me !

"2. Shutter speed I automatic mode up to 90 sec. " That's mean that the speed automaticly change to 1/90 when the flash is ready ?

Very usefull to me if I use the body with the 4x4 that does not allow to see the display.
 

evanjoe610

New Member
Paul,

Thank you for the detail description of the 2000/200 series bodies.

Could the 205TCC be upgrade to a 205FCC? That would be a very interesting option that I would pursue if possible.

Another question: Although it does not pertain to the V-System, I am exploring the possibility of an H system kit. Either a H-1 or H2F. The other option would be to find a H1 that has low exposure count and have upgrade either to the H2 or H2F.

Is the AF sensor still the same original one used throughout the entire H life span? Initially the h1 had a AF sensor wandering issue in low light application. Is that still true or has this been resolved through a newer sensor chip or new firmware upgrade? I plan to buy the CF adapter to hold down the initial cost for now for future lens purchase. At least my CF,F, and FE lenses would have an extended lease of their lifespan of use.

Evan
 
Only C, CF or CFE lens on the Hasselblad H !

CFE lens (in C-mode) allow to help exposure mettering.
Also the CFi lenses (C, CF, CFi and CFE)

When you set the the 200 series to -C- the focal plane shutter is disengaged and it behaves as a 500 series i.e. no metering. You control exposure by setting aperture and shutter speeds on the lens.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 

evanjoe610

New Member
Hi Paul,

I direct a question to you regarding the H System and if there was a possible upgrade path for a 205TCC to become a 205FCC.

In regards to the H System, it would appear that this will be my next path toward a leaf shutter AF system for both film & Digital. Are the H1-,H-2, and H2-F bodies all idenitical in function and is the AF mechanism still the same one from the H-1 body? Below is the original question I posted.

I thank you for your help and advice,

Evan



RE: Use of CFE lens with the 203 FE in C mode
Paul,

Thank you for the detail description of the 2000/200 series bodies.

Could the 205TCC be upgrade to a 205FCC? That would be a very interesting option that I would pursue if possible.

Another question: Although it does not pertain to the V-System, I am exploring the possibility of an H system kit. Either a H-1 or H2F. The other option would be to find a H1 that has low exposure count and have upgrade either to the H2 or H2F.

Is the AF sensor still the same original one used throughout the entire H life span? Initially the h1 had a AF sensor wandering issue in low light application. Is that still true or has this been resolved through a newer sensor chip or new firmware upgrade? I plan to buy the CF adapter to hold down the initial cost for now for future lens purchase. At least my CF,F, and FE lenses would have an extended lease of their lifespan of use.

Evan
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Paul,

Thank you for the detail description of the 2000/200 series bodies.

Could the 205TCC be upgrade to a 205FCC? That would be a very interesting option that I would pursue if possible.

Another question: Although it does not pertain to the V-System, I am exploring the possibility of an H system kit. Either a H-1 or H2F. The other option would be to find a H1 that has low exposure count and have upgrade either to the H2 or H2F.

Is the AF sensor still the same original one used throughout the entire H life span? Initially the h1 had a AF sensor wandering issue in low light application. Is that still true or has this been resolved through a newer sensor chip or new firmware upgrade? I plan to buy the CF adapter to hold down the initial cost for now for future lens purchase. At least my CF,F, and FE lenses would have an extended lease of their lifespan of use.

Evan
Hi Evan,

Could the 205TCC be upgrade to a 205FCC? No

Is the AF sensor still the same original one used throughout the entire H life span?
Yes, the AF sensor is the same from H1, H1D, H2, H2D, H2F, H3D and H3DII.


Initially the h1 had a AF sensor wandering issue in low light application. Is that still true or has this been resolved through a newer sensor chip or new firmware upgrade?
The range is from EV 1 to 19 at ISO 100.
I find that the AF on the H is very accurate and does not tend to hunt provided I have a subject that has some contrast and I am not trying to AF on blank wall or subject with no texture. You also confirm that you have the AF assist light set to "Ext. Flash" or "Camera" as this will assist the AF to achieve focus. There is to my knowledge no new sensor chip.


At least my CF,F, and FE lenses would have an extended lease of their lifespan of use.
While the F and FE will attach to the CF adapter they have no central shutter and therefore can not be used with the CF adapter and an H camera.
 

evanjoe610

New Member
Paul,

Thank you for the prompt reply. I am currently evaluating if my future plans should include one of the H system body (either an upgrade H-1 or a H-2F)
along the CF adapter. It appears that i would have to use my 2000/200 series bodies and my Contax 645 for the F and FE lenses.

Are there any future plan to revisit a new version of the Xpan system down the road or is this it?

Evan
 
Paul,

Thank you for the prompt reply. I am currently evaluating if my future plans should include one of the H system body (either an upgrade H-1 or a H-2F)
along the CF adapter. It appears that i would have to use my 2000/200 series bodies and my Contax 645 for the F and FE lenses.

Are there any future plan to revisit a new version of the Xpan system down the road or is this it?

Evan
Evan,

Hasselblad has no plans to revisit the XpanII or introduce a new model .

Paul Claesson
Hasselbald USA
 
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